Podcasts

The Lawfare Podcast: Oona Hathaway and Scott Shapiro on 'The Internationalists'

By Matthew Kahn
Saturday, September 30, 2017, 1:30 PM

The Kellogg-Briand Pact is often remembered as a failure. Signed in 1928 to outlaw war, it was followed in just over a decade by one of the deadliest conflicts in history. But Oona Hathaway and Scott Shapiro see the pact differently. In their new book, "The Internationalists: How a Radical Plan to Outlaw War Remade the World," they argue that though it did not successfully end all war, the pact changed the way states resolve disputes, reduced the likelihood of conquest, and set of a chain of events that led to the modern world order. On September 11, they sat down with Jack Goldsmith at the Hoover Book Soiree to discuss their book and its implications.