It's been more than a year since the first contact tracing and exposure notification apps for the novel coronavirus have appeared, and the apps have not at all lived up to the hype. In fact, they've almost invariably stumbled or not really worked at all. Jacob Schulz sat down with Alan Rozenshtein, associate professor of law at the University of Minnesota School of Law and a senior editor at Lawfare, and Susan Landau, a professor of Cyber Security and Policy at Tufts and a senior contributor for Lawfare, to talk about digital disease surveillance during the COVID-19 pandemic. Alan has recently published a law review article about digital disease surveillance and Susan has recently published a book on the contact tracing apps. What went wrong, and what are the lessons to be learned?