The Cyberlaw Podcast

The Cyberlaw Podcast: China and the CIA: A Wilderness of Mirror Imaging

By Stewart Baker
Wednesday, January 13, 2021, 4:13 PM

In this episode, I interview Zach Dorfman about his excellent reports in Foreign Policy about U.S.-Chinese intelligence competition in the last decade. Zach is a well-regarded national security journalist, a senior staff writer at the Aspen Institute’s Cyber and Technology program and a senior fellow at the Carnegie Council for Ethics in International Affairs. We dive deep into his tale of how the CIA achieved remarkable penetration of the Chinese government and then lost it, inspiring China to build a far more professional and formidable global intelligence network.

In the news roundup, we touch on the disgraceful riot at the Capitol this week, and I criticize Silicon Valley’s rush to score points against the right in a way it never did with the BLM demonstrations last summer. Nate Jones disagrees with my take, but we manage to successfully predict Parler’s shift from platform to (antitrust) plaintiff and to bond over my proposal to impose heavy taxes on social media with more than ten million users. Really, why spend three years in court trying to break‘em up when you can get them to do it themselves and raise money to boot?

SolarWinds keep blowing. Sultan Meghji and Zach Dorfman give us the latest on the attribution to Russia, the fine difference between attack and espionage and the likelihood of direct or indirect regulation.

Pete Jeydel and Sultan cover the latest round of penalties imposed by the rapidly dwindling Trump administration on Chinese companies.

Nate dehypes the UK High Court decision supposedly ruling mass hacking illegal. He previews some Biden appointments, and we talk about the surprising rise of career talent and why that might be happening. Nate also critiques former Director of National Intelligence Ric Grenell after accusations of politicization of intelligence. I’m kinder. But not when I condemn Distributed Denial of Services for joining forces with ransomware gangs to punish victims; it’s hard to believe that anyone could make Julian Assange and Wikileaks look responsible, but they do. Speaking of Julian, he’s won another Pyrrhic victory in court – likely extending his imprisonment with another temporizing win.

And more!

Download the 344th Episode (mp3)

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